Thursday, February 5, 2015

The Touch Pad Mystery

I bought my new HP Pavilion 17 notebook (laptop) on October 1, 2014, and I've been having problems with the touch pad ever since.  In a previous thread (HERE) I wrote about the problems involved in converting to a new computer.  All problems have been resolved, except for one: the touch pad on my lap top doesn't work properly.  Initially, the problem was the touch pad would simply stop working.

I've taken the computer back to the store several times, and each time the touch pad problem appeared to be fixed, but then the touch pad stopped working again.  The last time was on November 24, 2014.  The touch pad was working fine when I tested it in the store.  However, the fix only lasted until I got home and turned on my computer again.  When I did so, the touch pad wasn't working.

At one time, the problem appeared to be that the "two finger scroll" functions were at fault, since it seemed that things would work fine when those functions were turned off.  That might still be true, but the touch pad stopped working even when I had the "two finger scroll functions" turned off. 

I bought a mouse on November 2, 2014, so as of that time I was no longer dependent on the touch pad.  And, it was clear that I much preferred using a mouse to using the touch pad, so I just used the mouse from that time on.  The only "solution" at the time seemed to be to reload the Synaptic touch pad driver every time the problem occurred.  But, that didn't seem like a viable solution, since it wouldn't help me when I was in an hypothetical situation where I couldn't use the mouse.  I could probably learn how to to reload the touch pad driver to get it working again, but why do so when I still won't be able to load the driver unless I have the mouse connected?

Then a discovery.

On the morning of January 29, 2015, I brushed away a speck of dust from the touch pad and the cursor moved.  Checking further, I found that the touch pad was working "normally," but without the two finger scroll function.  The touch pad had apparently fixed itself!

I was so excited that I posted a message to Microsoft's user forum with the subject "My touchpad suddenly started working."  (I thought Microsoft may have applied a fix.  When I noticed the touch pad was working, I'd also noticed that someone was updating something in the "background," because there was a significant delay between me typing and the letters appearing on the screen.)

But, it only lasted until I turned the laptop off to go to lunch. When I returned from lunch and opened the lid on my computer, the touch pad was "dead" - totally nonfunctional - as usual.

Meanwhile, someone on the Microsoft forum has asked me if, in the Device Manager area, under "Mice and other pointing devices," it says the touch pad is not functioning.  I checked, and it said the touch pad was "working properly" even though it wasn't functioning at all.  That was the end of the discussion.

Then, on the morning of February 1, it happened again.  I brushed away a speck of dust on the touch pad, and the cursor moved.  The touch pad was functioning again (without the two finger scroll function).  It lasted until I closed the lid on the computer to go to lunch.

When it happened again on the morning of February 4, I decided to do some research and to start being more scientific about the figuring out the cause of the problem.  I did a Google search for "touchpad on-switch" and found a discussion HERE about such a thing on a HP notebook. I found that some HP laptops have an on-off switch for the touch pad.  You either tap the upper left corner twice to turn the touch pad on and off, or you press the upper left corner and hold it for a few seconds to perform the same functions.  But, that doesn't work on my laptop.

Something is turning the touch pad on, however.  I was becoming certain that closing the lid on the laptop was what turned the touch pad off, but when I did a test on Feb. 4 while the touch pad was working, only closing the lid for about 30 seconds, the touch pad was still working when I opened the lid and signed on again.  However, when I closed the lid to go to lunch and run some errands for a couple hours, the touch pad was no longer functioning when I returned.

I also did another test while the touch pad was working.  I swiped my finger in from the left side to see if it would turn the touch pad off.  It didn't, but while my finger was still on the touch pad, the cursor wasn't moving.  I had to lift my finger and put it down again to get the cursor to start moving again.  So, it had temporarily turned off the touch pad - sort of.  (The reverse doesn't work.  I.e., when the touch pad isn't working, swiping my finger in from the left side does nothing.) 

This morning I went through the pdf file of instructions for my laptop to see if it says anything about any switch for turning the touch pad on and off.  It doesn't.

So, now I'm waiting for the touch pad to start working again.  And I'm keeping a record of what tests I did when the touch pad starts working again all by itself.  It hasn't escaped my notice that the touch pad seems to start working around every third day.  We'll see if it starts working on the 7th.  If it does, I think I have an idea where the problem comes from.

Hmm.  When I returned home on the afternoon of the 6th and turned on my laptop, the touch pad was working again.  So, it wasn't quite three days.  But there is still some kind a pattern to it.  The touch pad kept working after I closed the laptop lid a couple times for 10 minutes or so.  But, on the morning of the 7th it was no longer working.  And then on the morning of the 8th it was working again.  And when I turned on the laptop in the afternoon it was still working.  And it was still working on the morning of the 9th.  In the afternoon, it wasn't working. And, for the second time, it worked 2 days in a row when it worked all day on the 11th and was still working on the morning of the 12th.  Here's a summary of the times the touch pad worked:

Jan. 29: worked in the a.m.
Feb. 1: worked in the a.m.
Feb. 4: worked in the a.m.
Feb. 6: worked in the p.m.
Feb. 8: worked in the a.m. & p.m.
Feb. 9: worked in the a.m.
Feb. 11: worked in the a.m. & p.m.
Feb. 12: worked in the a.m. & p.m.
Feb. 13: worked in the p.m.
Feb. 14: worked in the a.m. & p.m.
Feb. 15: worked in the p.m. - sort of
Feb. 16: worked in the a.m. & p.m - sort of (see comments).
Feb. 17: worked in the a.m. & p.m.
Feb. 18: worked in the a.m. & p.m.
Feb. 19: worked in the a.m.

On Saturday, Feb. 15, I noticed that the touch pad was working but then stopped working.  It stopped when I moved the computer into another room, where I turned on the computer first, and then the mouse.  Experiments on Sunday the 15th and Monday the 16th seem to confirm that the touch pad works ONLY if I turn on the mouse before turning on the computer.

Of course, that means I need the mouse in order to make the touch pad work.  That makes the touch pad worthless, since the only time I would need it is when I'm in a situation where I can't use the mouse.

What I'm going to do for the next five days is turn my computer on and off the same way every time as follows:
 
1. Turn on the mouse.
2. Turn on the power to the large monitor.
3. Open the computer.
4. Use the mouse.
5. Check to see if the touch pad works.

When I shut down for lunch and in the evening, I'll do the following:

1. Close the lid on the computer.
2. Turn off the mouse.
3. Turn off the power to the large monitor.

When I've done that for five days, if the results are consistent and the touch pad always works, I'll try switching some element to see what the effect is.  I'll write the results in comments below, instead of here.

I need to confirm everything.  But, I think I'm getting close to having enough information to use when I discuss the problem with HP or with Microsoft or with the people at the computer store.

Ed

14 comments:

  1. Yesterday afternoon, I went to the store where I bought my laptop and tried to explain the situation to one of their technicians. In the process, I clarified a few things that I hadn't thought about before:

    The technician suggested that maybe I was accidentally doing something that turned the touch pad on and off. That's when I realized that the touch pad is either working when I turn on my computer, or it isn't working. And, if it is working, it will always continue to work until I turn the laptop off. The touch pad does NOT turn on or off WHILE I'm using the laptop.

    The technician, of course, suggested I bring in the computer to have them look at it. But, I've done that over a half dozen times and nothing was solved. The problem still exists. If the touch pad is NOT working, they just reload the touch pad driver and the touch pad works again -- until the time when I turn the laptop on and the touch pad is NOT working. If the touch pad is working when I bring it in (which I've never done), they wouldn't see any problem.

    This is a problem that it seems needs to be worked out logically.

    This morning I woke up with the idea that I need to get on some Hewitt-Packard blog and explain the problem there. But, for the SECOND time, the touch pad has worked for two days in a row. Maybe now it will just continue to work and the problem was somehow fixed --- I hope.

    Looking at the pattern, it seems that the period between the times when the touch pad is NOT working are getting shorter and shorter. And the times when it IS working are getting longer and longer.

    So, I'm going to have to just continue watching it and recording when it works and when it doesn't work -- until I get some better idea of what the problem may be. Maybe it will just go away.

    Ed

    ReplyDelete
  2. The touch pad wasn't working when I turned on the computer on Friday, Feb. 13. I'm making this note because, as soon as I turned on the computer, the security software asked me to restart the computer to install new updates. To me that's an indicator that the security software had done something since I last used the computer.

    Ed

    ReplyDelete
  3. The touch pad was NOT working when I turned on the computer on the morning of Sunday, Feb. 15. But, I didn't turn on the mouse until after I checked.

    In the early afternoon, I turned on the mouse before opening the computer, and the touch pad was working. Now I'm wondering if WHEN I turn on the mouse could have some impact on whether the touch pad works or not. I can't recall where the cursor was on the screen or how I made it appear when I didn't have a mouse.

    Later in the afternoon, I opened the lid on my laptop BEFORE turning on the mouse, and the touch pad didn't work.

    Then, I turned off the computer without turning off the mouse. When I opened the lid on the computer again about 30 seconds later, the touch pad was working.

    Is it a "clue"? Time will tell.

    Ed

    ReplyDelete
  4. On Monday morning, Feb. 16, I turned on the mouse before turning on the computer. As expected, the touch pad worked fine when I turned on the computer.

    Then I turned off the mouse. The touch pad continued to work fine.

    Then I turned off the computer. I left the mouse turned off. When I turned on the computer again, the touch pad wouldn't work. It wouldn't work when I turned on the mouse, either.

    The next test will be to close the lid (turning off the computer) and then turning on the mouse before opening the lid again. If the touch pad works, that should be solid evidence that I have to turn on the mouse before turning on the computer, otherwise the touch pad won't work.

    Then I'll see if the same thing happens when I use the on-off switch instead of closing and opening the lid.

    Ed

    ReplyDelete
  5. Ah! It didn't work. I'd left the mouse on when I closed the lid. Then, about a minute later I opened the lid. I tried using the touch pad. It didn't work.

    There was no arrow/cursor on the screen. I had to MOVE the mouse in order to make the arrow appear. Then I tried the touch pad again, and it didn't work.

    So, I not only have to turn on the mouse before turning on the computer, I have to MOVE the mouse in order to make the cursor/arrow appear. Then the touch pad will work.

    That makes it a lot more complicated. And it makes it harder to describe the symptoms of the problem.

    Ed

    ReplyDelete
  6. Nuts. I closed the lid, turning off the computer, while leaving the mouse on. I then opened the lid. There was no cursor/arrow on the screen. So I moved the mouse to make it appear. Then I tried the touch pad. It didn't work.

    The next test will be to actually turn off the mouse when I turn off the computer.

    Ed

    ReplyDelete
  7. Hmm. The large monitor may be part of the problem.

    I turned off the computer by closing the lid. The large monitor went off, too. But after a few seconds it turned on again, perhaps just to tell me that it was still on. It showed the time and the startup screen pattern. I turned off the large monitor. Then I turned on the computer and monitor again. Then I turned on the mouse. There was no cursor arrow until I USED the mouse. Then I tried the touch pad. It worked.

    So, it now appears that I have to USE the mouse before using the touch pad, otherwise the touch pad won't work.

    Ed

    ReplyDelete
  8. Nuts. I turned off the computer, the large monitor and the mouse. I went to get a cup of coffee, leaving everything off for a couple minutes.

    Then I turned on the mouse.
    I turned on the large monitor.
    I turned on the computer.

    The computer screen came on first - not the large monitor.
    There was no cursor arrow on the screen.
    I tried the touch pad. The cursor arrow appeared and the touch pad worked.
    Then I turned on the mouse. Everything still worked.
    Then I switched to the large monitor.

    So, I do NOT have to use the mouse before using the touch pad.

    Of course, it could be a matter of how long I leave the computer off.

    Clearly I need to record each step, so that I'm certain of the order in which I'm doing things. And, it's probably not a good idea to constantly turn the computer and monitors on and off.

    Ed

    ReplyDelete
  9. On Monday (the 16th) p.m., I turned on the mouse, then turned on the power to the large monitor, then opened the computer. After checking the mouse to get the cursor, I checked the touch pad. It worked.

    The only odd thing was that the laptop screen came on, not the large monitor. I had press F4 and make the switch. I would have thought that the large monitor would come on first, since it was the monitor I used last. But, we'll see if that pattern holds.

    Ed

    ReplyDelete
  10. Tuesday a.m. was just like Monday p.m.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Tuesday p.m. was just like Tuesday a.m., except that I had to let Microsoft do 13 updates. It didn't affect the touch pad (as far as I can tell). It still works.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Wednesday a.m. was just like Monday a.m. through Tuesday p.m.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Wednesday p.m. was just like Monday a.m. through Wednesday a.m. Plus, I had an occasion where I needed to shut down my laptop in order to connect to the Internet via my old computer. That required starting the laptop up again when I was done. It worked as it had for the past three days: the touch pad worked because the mouse had been turned on first.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Thursday a.m. was just like Monday a.m. through Wednesday p.m. The touch pad worked when I turned on the mouse before opening the computer.

    However, yesterday afternoon I noticed a software switch that can be set to turn OFF the touch pad if the mouse is active. That switch MAY be the answer to my touch pad problem. Or it may not. Either way, I'm going to start a new thread about it and continue all my comments about the touch pad on that thread.

    Ed

    ReplyDelete